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	<title>Comments on: Guitar refinishing – nitro vs poly and how to remove a polyester finish</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/</link>
	<description>Ingo Raven's blog about the Mark Knopfler guitar style and electric guitar in general</description>
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		<title>By: Gary Penton</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-3230</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Penton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-3230</guid>
		<description>I took about two minutes to find a blog written by the Fender finishing shop. This is an excerpt but if your skull is still not penetrated with common sense I suggest you read the entire text at http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19860.html. 

Here is what Mark Kendrick who has worked at Fender for years has to say about it: &quot;Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn&#039;t &#039;breathe&#039; at 120 db. 

My first year at Fender I personally painted approximately 46,000 guitars. I like polyester. I like Nitro colors too. But maybe I&#039;ll let the players that use poly (ester or urethane) speak for themselves... 

Billy Gibbons, Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson, Joe Perry, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Roccco Prestia, Jimmie Vaughn, Nils Lofgren, Vince Gill, Chet Atkins, Tom Hamilton, Lenny Kravitz, Merle Haggard, Don Rich, Darryl Jones, Mike Stern, Larry Carlton, Peter Frampton, Sting, Marty Stuart, just to name a few. More are available upon request. Mark Kendrick, Fender Musical Instruments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took about two minutes to find a blog written by the Fender finishing shop. This is an excerpt but if your skull is still not penetrated with common sense I suggest you read the entire text at <a href="http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19860.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19860.html?referer=');">http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19860.html</a>. </p>
<p>Here is what Mark Kendrick who has worked at Fender for years has to say about it: &#8220;Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn&#8217;t &#8216;breathe&#8217; at 120 db. </p>
<p>My first year at Fender I personally painted approximately 46,000 guitars. I like polyester. I like Nitro colors too. But maybe I&#8217;ll let the players that use poly (ester or urethane) speak for themselves&#8230; </p>
<p>Billy Gibbons, Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson, Joe Perry, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Roccco Prestia, Jimmie Vaughn, Nils Lofgren, Vince Gill, Chet Atkins, Tom Hamilton, Lenny Kravitz, Merle Haggard, Don Rich, Darryl Jones, Mike Stern, Larry Carlton, Peter Frampton, Sting, Marty Stuart, just to name a few. More are available upon request. Mark Kendrick, Fender Musical Instruments.</p>
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		<title>By: jakehadlee</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2955</link>
		<dc:creator>jakehadlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2955</guid>
		<description>I think maybe the heavy layers of signal processing between Kirk Hammett&#039;s sloshy, acrylic guitar and the recording desk might have had significantly more effect on the sound than the water in the voids, to be honest.

The difference is there alright - I too have tried it with an 80s Jap Strat. I&#039;d played the same Strat for 20 years, and knew its tone as well as I know my own voice, and believe me it changed. It is quite subtle, and only really noticeable when running straight to a clean amp with no effects. But that&#039;s what I do most of the time, so that&#039;s good for me.

I think the reason it is a bit of a controversial subject is that it shouldn&#039;t really make that much difference - just like a bumble bee shouldn&#039;t really be able to fly - but it does.

Maybe some people are better at listening than hearing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think maybe the heavy layers of signal processing between Kirk Hammett&#8217;s sloshy, acrylic guitar and the recording desk might have had significantly more effect on the sound than the water in the voids, to be honest.</p>
<p>The difference is there alright &#8211; I too have tried it with an 80s Jap Strat. I&#8217;d played the same Strat for 20 years, and knew its tone as well as I know my own voice, and believe me it changed. It is quite subtle, and only really noticeable when running straight to a clean amp with no effects. But that&#8217;s what I do most of the time, so that&#8217;s good for me.</p>
<p>I think the reason it is a bit of a controversial subject is that it shouldn&#8217;t really make that much difference &#8211; just like a bumble bee shouldn&#8217;t really be able to fly &#8211; but it does.</p>
<p>Maybe some people are better at listening than hearing.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Penton</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Penton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 00:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just trying to discourage people from ruining a perfectly acceptable finish on a solidbody guitar; assuming the finish isn&#039;t already damaged beyond repair.

When I was young it was 1964. I build guitars for a living now that I am a retired Naval Aviator and able to do what I want. I attended the American School of Lutherie with Charles Fox when it was in Healdsburg and I graduated from Luthiers International in Atlanta. I studied Classical Guitar making with Ken Hill of Hill Classical Guitars near Santa Cruz. Of interest is that I spent my military career as a submarine hunter in the P-3C Orion. All manner of sophisticated listening devices were my tools and I was very good at it.

The proper experiment would have been to use the same model guitars finished with the different &quot;hard&quot; finishes with the same pickup and settings. The frequency response will not be easily discernable but can still be measured to show that the &#039;sound&#039; (for lack of a more specific term) will be nearly identical assuming that the string gauge, string spacing and pole/string distances are the same.

If you removed the polyurethane and didn&#039;t refinish with any other &#039;hard&#039; finish the difference would be audible - it would be muddy. Sound files for the internet aren&#039;t very good indicators for anything. The sound files are necessarily low quality so if you still argue your case, I submit that you accidentally exaggerated one or several electronic settings on the guitar and/or the mixing board and/or the recording device... which will also affect the tone to a very significant degree. 

In &quot;Cunning Stunts&quot;; arguably the most well-produced Metallica live performance, Kirk Hammett played a clear acrylic guitar with different colors of sloshing water in the voids. Pretty telling.

Of course, my opinion will likely fall on deaf ears (pun intended) because &quot;we sometimes hear what we want to hear no matter what is actually heard.&quot; 

The world is not flat and that is that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just trying to discourage people from ruining a perfectly acceptable finish on a solidbody guitar; assuming the finish isn&#8217;t already damaged beyond repair.</p>
<p>When I was young it was 1964. I build guitars for a living now that I am a retired Naval Aviator and able to do what I want. I attended the American School of Lutherie with Charles Fox when it was in Healdsburg and I graduated from Luthiers International in Atlanta. I studied Classical Guitar making with Ken Hill of Hill Classical Guitars near Santa Cruz. Of interest is that I spent my military career as a submarine hunter in the P-3C Orion. All manner of sophisticated listening devices were my tools and I was very good at it.</p>
<p>The proper experiment would have been to use the same model guitars finished with the different &#8220;hard&#8221; finishes with the same pickup and settings. The frequency response will not be easily discernable but can still be measured to show that the &#8216;sound&#8217; (for lack of a more specific term) will be nearly identical assuming that the string gauge, string spacing and pole/string distances are the same.</p>
<p>If you removed the polyurethane and didn&#8217;t refinish with any other &#8216;hard&#8217; finish the difference would be audible &#8211; it would be muddy. Sound files for the internet aren&#8217;t very good indicators for anything. The sound files are necessarily low quality so if you still argue your case, I submit that you accidentally exaggerated one or several electronic settings on the guitar and/or the mixing board and/or the recording device&#8230; which will also affect the tone to a very significant degree. </p>
<p>In &#8220;Cunning Stunts&#8221;; arguably the most well-produced Metallica live performance, Kirk Hammett played a clear acrylic guitar with different colors of sloshing water in the voids. Pretty telling.</p>
<p>Of course, my opinion will likely fall on deaf ears (pun intended) because &#8220;we sometimes hear what we want to hear no matter what is actually heard.&#8221; </p>
<p>The world is not flat and that is that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ingo</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2875</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 05:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2875</guid>
		<description>&gt;the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response.

When I was young I thought like you and exchanged PUs in my Strat. Unfortunately this did not bring me closer to the desired sound. Pick-ups are like microphones: if you use the same mic as Mick Jagger you might have the same frequency response, but still you don&#039;t sound like him. In the contrary, Jagger will sound like Jagger with all mics.

It is the wood, mainly the neck, that is most important *to my experience * (and yes, I exchanged so many parts myself to come to this conclusion and do not write about what I heard somewhere)

&gt;&gt;The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard

My guitar is not a vibrating soundboard and it changed its sound after removing the poly. Didn&#039;t you listen to the sound clip ??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response.</p>
<p>When I was young I thought like you and exchanged PUs in my Strat. Unfortunately this did not bring me closer to the desired sound. Pick-ups are like microphones: if you use the same mic as Mick Jagger you might have the same frequency response, but still you don&#8217;t sound like him. In the contrary, Jagger will sound like Jagger with all mics.</p>
<p>It is the wood, mainly the neck, that is most important *to my experience * (and yes, I exchanged so many parts myself to come to this conclusion and do not write about what I heard somewhere)</p>
<p>>>The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard</p>
<p>My guitar is not a vibrating soundboard and it changed its sound after removing the poly. Didn&#8217;t you listen to the sound clip ??</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Penton</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2874</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Penton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2874</guid>
		<description>Correction: Polyester for base and grain filling and then urethane for clear coats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction: Polyester for base and grain filling and then urethane for clear coats.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Penton</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2873</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Penton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2873</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s your imagination. For solidbody guitars; the electronics - more specifically, the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response. This is the opinion of the majority of makers who even care to spend the time to make the boring argument. The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard; and even then it isn&#039;t readily evident to the human ear. The last comment by Eric is uninformed at best. Urethane is used primarily as base coats and filler with urethane making up the majority of build and top coats. See Warmoth.com paint technique page for more information. Polyester takes many, many forms; not just lounge lizard clothing - that was just silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s your imagination. For solidbody guitars; the electronics &#8211; more specifically, the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response. This is the opinion of the majority of makers who even care to spend the time to make the boring argument. The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard; and even then it isn&#8217;t readily evident to the human ear. The last comment by Eric is uninformed at best. Urethane is used primarily as base coats and filler with urethane making up the majority of build and top coats. See Warmoth.com paint technique page for more information. Polyester takes many, many forms; not just lounge lizard clothing &#8211; that was just silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2708</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2708</guid>
		<description>That seems about right. Except the type of finish we are talking about is polyurethane, not polyester. I guarantee there are no guitars on this planet finished in polyester. I have polyester fleece jackets, or hats. That would not be a very resonant finish...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That seems about right. Except the type of finish we are talking about is polyurethane, not polyester. I guarantee there are no guitars on this planet finished in polyester. I have polyester fleece jackets, or hats. That would not be a very resonant finish&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Removing Poly..... - My Les Paul Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2655</link>
		<dc:creator>Removing Poly..... - My Les Paul Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 01:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2655</guid>
		<description>[...] Anyway thought it was worth putting it up for any who are looking for an alternative to sanding.  Guitar refinishing - nitro vs poly and how to remove a polyester finish &#124; Mark Knopfler Guitar / Mor...     __________________ &quot;Rock &#039;n&#039; Roll ain&#039;t no riddle man, To me it makes good good [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Anyway thought it was worth putting it up for any who are looking for an alternative to sanding.  Guitar refinishing &#8211; nitro vs poly and how to remove a polyester finish | Mark Knopfler Guitar / Mor&#8230;     __________________ &quot;Rock &#8216;n&#8217; Roll ain&#8217;t no riddle man, To me it makes good good [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stefan</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2520</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2520</guid>
		<description>I only wanted to remove the poly  not the colour and flame finish, but I guess that doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I only wanted to remove the poly  not the colour and flame finish, but I guess that doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: RaiulBaztepo</title>
		<link>http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/2009/01/02/guitar-refinishing-nitro-vs-poly-and-how-to-remove-a-polyester-finish/comment-page-1/#comment-2516</link>
		<dc:creator>RaiulBaztepo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/?p=818#comment-2516</guid>
		<description>Hello!
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource! 
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I&#039;v just started to learn this language ;)
See you! 
Your, Raiul Baztepo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello!<br />
Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!<br />
PS: Sorry for my bad english, I&#8217;v just started to learn this language <img src='http://www.mk-guitar.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
See you!<br />
Your, Raiul Baztepo</p>
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