18 Comments »

1. 

   Hello
   and thanks for the article. I was wondering if such a job could also be done with guitare that have a flamed maple top and a 3 tone fender like finish. The trick with heat sounds interesting however I’m frightened that by this the finish will become a different colour or dark spots. What do you think about that. I can send you a picture of the body it is by Allparts and I really like the finish, however I don’t like that stupid plastic and real nitro bodies as you know are quite expensive
   Cheeers
   Stefan

   Comment by Stefan — 28. March 2009 @ 10:11

2. 

   What do you mean with afraid the finish will become darker? Didn’t you say you want to remove it anyway, or what? I made the experience that the poly coat could be removed with heat and the wood beneath it was not touched, darkened or anything.

   Comment by Ingo — 28. March 2009 @ 16:07

3. 

   Hello!
   Very Interesting post! Thank you for such interesting resource!
   PS: Sorry for my bad english, I’v just started to learn this language
   See you!
   Your, Raiul Baztepo

   Comment by RaiulBaztepo — 29. March 2009 @ 00:19

4. 

   I only wanted to remove the poly not the colour and flame finish, but I guess that doesn’t work.

   Comment by Stefan — 30. March 2009 @ 17:17

5. [...] Anyway thought it was worth putting it up for any who are looking for an alternative to sanding. Guitar refinishing – nitro vs poly and how to remove a polyester finish | Mark Knopfler Guitar / Mor… __________________ "Rock ‘n’ Roll ain’t no riddle man, To me it makes good good [...]

   Pingback by Removing Poly..... - My Les Paul Forums — 7. June 2009 @ 02:55

6. 

   That seems about right. Except the type of finish we are talking about is polyurethane, not polyester. I guarantee there are no guitars on this planet finished in polyester. I have polyester fleece jackets, or hats. That would not be a very resonant finish…

   Comment by Eric — 29. June 2009 @ 21:33

7. 

   It’s your imagination. For solidbody guitars; the electronics – more specifically, the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response. This is the opinion of the majority of makers who even care to spend the time to make the boring argument. The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard; and even then it isn’t readily evident to the human ear. The last comment by Eric is uninformed at best. Urethane is used primarily as base coats and filler with urethane making up the majority of build and top coats. See Warmoth.com paint technique page for more information. Polyester takes many, many forms; not just lounge lizard clothing – that was just silly.

   Comment by Gary Penton — 23. September 2009 @ 00:55

8. 

   Correction: Polyester for base and grain filling and then urethane for clear coats.

   Comment by Gary Penton — 23. September 2009 @ 00:57

9. 

   >the pickups account for over 80% of the overall frequence response.

   When I was young I thought like you and exchanged PUs in my Strat. Unfortunately this did not bring me closer to the desired sound. Pick-ups are like microphones: if you use the same mic as Mick Jagger you might have the same frequency response, but still you don’t sound like him. In the contrary, Jagger will sound like Jagger with all mics.

   It is the wood, mainly the neck, that is most important *to my experience * (and yes, I exchanged so many parts myself to come to this conclusion and do not write about what I heard somewhere)

   >>The sonic differences between lacquer and polyesters are really only discernible when describing a vibrating soundboard

   My guitar is not a vibrating soundboard and it changed its sound after removing the poly. Didn’t you listen to the sound clip ??

   Comment by Ingo — 23. September 2009 @ 06:26

10. 

    I’m just trying to discourage people from ruining a perfectly acceptable finish on a solidbody guitar; assuming the finish isn’t already damaged beyond repair.

    When I was young it was 1964. I build guitars for a living now that I am a retired Naval Aviator and able to do what I want. I attended the American School of Lutherie with Charles Fox when it was in Healdsburg and I graduated from Luthiers International in Atlanta. I studied Classical Guitar making with Ken Hill of Hill Classical Guitars near Santa Cruz. Of interest is that I spent my military career as a submarine hunter in the P-3C Orion. All manner of sophisticated listening devices were my tools and I was very good at it.

    The proper experiment would have been to use the same model guitars finished with the different “hard” finishes with the same pickup and settings. The frequency response will not be easily discernable but can still be measured to show that the ‘sound’ (for lack of a more specific term) will be nearly identical assuming that the string gauge, string spacing and pole/string distances are the same.

    If you removed the polyurethane and didn’t refinish with any other ‘hard’ finish the difference would be audible – it would be muddy. Sound files for the internet aren’t very good indicators for anything. The sound files are necessarily low quality so if you still argue your case, I submit that you accidentally exaggerated one or several electronic settings on the guitar and/or the mixing board and/or the recording device… which will also affect the tone to a very significant degree.

    In “Cunning Stunts”; arguably the most well-produced Metallica live performance, Kirk Hammett played a clear acrylic guitar with different colors of sloshing water in the voids. Pretty telling.

    Of course, my opinion will likely fall on deaf ears (pun intended) because “we sometimes hear what we want to hear no matter what is actually heard.”

    The world is not flat and that is that.

    Comment by Gary Penton — 9. October 2009 @ 01:04

11. 

    I think maybe the heavy layers of signal processing between Kirk Hammett’s sloshy, acrylic guitar and the recording desk might have had significantly more effect on the sound than the water in the voids, to be honest.

    The difference is there alright – I too have tried it with an 80s Jap Strat. I’d played the same Strat for 20 years, and knew its tone as well as I know my own voice, and believe me it changed. It is quite subtle, and only really noticeable when running straight to a clean amp with no effects. But that’s what I do most of the time, so that’s good for me.

    I think the reason it is a bit of a controversial subject is that it shouldn’t really make that much difference – just like a bumble bee shouldn’t really be able to fly – but it does.

    Maybe some people are better at listening than hearing.

    Comment by jakehadlee — 21. October 2009 @ 13:04

12. 

    I took about two minutes to find a blog written by the Fender finishing shop. This is an excerpt but if your skull is still not penetrated with common sense I suggest you read the entire text at http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-19860.html.

    Here is what Mark Kendrick who has worked at Fender for years has to say about it: “Nitro is not a superior finish. An electric guitar doesn’t ‘breathe’ at 120 db.

    My first year at Fender I personally painted approximately 46,000 guitars. I like polyester. I like Nitro colors too. But maybe I’ll let the players that use poly (ester or urethane) speak for themselves…

    Billy Gibbons, Geddy Lee, Alex Lifeson, Joe Perry, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Roccco Prestia, Jimmie Vaughn, Nils Lofgren, Vince Gill, Chet Atkins, Tom Hamilton, Lenny Kravitz, Merle Haggard, Don Rich, Darryl Jones, Mike Stern, Larry Carlton, Peter Frampton, Sting, Marty Stuart, just to name a few. More are available upon request. Mark Kendrick, Fender Musical Instruments.

    Comment by Gary Penton — 9. January 2010 @ 19:33

13. 

    Thank you for your post. Do you have any experience/knowledge or resources in regards to the same problem of “stripping” polyester off a a piano, part. one that is veneered. My concern is that the heat, could damage/seperate the veneer bond. Piano, was built in 1908. Thank you for your time.
    John, RVR

    Comment by john hutchinson — 25. October 2010 @ 04:25

14. 

    I don’t know how this would work for a piano. When I did this with the guitar, there was not really much heat involved, just so much that the poly coat became warm, far from throwing bubbles or such. Thus the guitar was never in a danger like glue that becomes soft or such.

    Comment by Ingo — 25. October 2010 @ 15:13

15. 

    I notice an immediate difference in the guitars I have refinished. It is definitely much more apparent in acoustic instruments than electric but to me it’s more than just subtle. What it comes down to is vibration. If wood is restricted from freely vibrating then now can it’s true voice resonate into the bridge, neck, nut, and tuning pegs and through the strings into the pickup? Each of these elements act as a frequency filter and so does the finish. If you wrapped your vocal chords in saran wrap and sung into a nice Neumann Microphone your voice will never reach it’s true potential. That is essentially what is happening when you wrap a guitar in plastic.

    Some people just aren’t as refined in their hearing or have spent to much time working near loud machinery or shooting guns. All you have to do is open your ear. Just as a person that has always been deaf can never describe the sound of an ocean or a blind person can never describe a sunset some people just don’t have access to the proper senses.

    Comment by Jeremiah Boothe — 2. December 2010 @ 04:41

16. 

    P.S. Listing a bunch of musicians that use poly finishes doesn’t prove anything except that those musicians found the sound they were looking for within those instruments. A Poly finished guitar can sound great but I personally prefer to let my wood resonate more.

    Comment by Jeremiah Boothe — 2. December 2010 @ 12:06

17. 

    After reading this post I was curious, so I refinished my MIM Baja Tele because I hated the thick plasticky finish. There is a very discernible difference in sound, exactly like the author describes. I played the guitar plugged into my vibrolux, spent 3 hours stripping the poly, and then plugged it back into the same amp with the same settings. The high end is much more pronounced, and it resonates more even when unplugged. The author’s sound clips don’t do it justice.

    Gary Penton, who wrote above that the finish doesn’t matter, is flat-out incorrect. It makes sense that Fender would defend poly finishes, because that’s pretty much all they offer anymore.

    Comment by Liam — 15. November 2011 @ 22:36

18. 

    I didn’t know the the polyester coat of the guitar will be that heavy and thick. Now it make sense why its a little bit heavier.

    Comment by Silvana D. Potter — 16. November 2011 @ 05:11

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